Kenji Kamiyama is the director of the 2002 television series Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex, which successfully popularized the darling of hardcore science fiction enthusiasts on mainstream living room TVs. Together with Shinji Aramaki, he also co-directed the latest series under the title and its first all-CG entry, Ghost in the Shell: SAC_2045. It features a retuned “future” with adjustments to the characters, setting, and cases Public Security Section 9 investigates to make things easier for a modern audience to digest. Kamiyama’s ability to lead a challenging work to success lies in his understanding of the inherent appeal of Ghost in the Shell, which remains unshaken even with some changes to the setting. In this retrospective on Ghost in the Shell, we spoke with him about everything from when he first encountered the original manga to his focus in his first work as a director, as well as the hopes he had for the latest release.

――I’ve heard you weren’t hesitant at all about agreeing to direct Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex. Was that true of Ghost in the Shell: SAC_2045, too?

 

Kenji Kamiyama (“Kamiyama” below): I was really excited when I heard I’d get to make a new Ghost in the Shell with Aramaki, too. That said, I also thought, “I can’t see any way this series is suited to 3D,” if I’m being honest. When I think back on the first Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex, it feels like the protagonists visit a new location almost every episode, and we would have issues like not being able to use the cars and mobs we used in the streets of towns, and we’d sometimes have to change Motoko’s clothes situationally. When I thought about doing that in full 3D, it seemed like no amount of time or budget would be enough for it. It’s also hard to redraw and add elements when you get ideas later in 3D, unlike with cel animation. There’s a lot you can’t do in 3D, unlike cel animation. But I found there were also a lot of advantages to it once I started actually working with it. All else aside, it’s nice that 3D characters don’t get disjointed. The most exhausting thing in 2D cel animation production is the meticulous inbetweening process to ensure the images flow smoothly. It’s not related to the actual work; it’s the actual process of making anime. And it’s stressful for both the quality checker and the production team these days. But there’s no risk of issues with 3D characters, meaning there’s less overhead for redrawing cels, and that time can go toward other creative debates. That might be the big difference between cel animation and 3D.

 

――With how long it had been since the last title release, what did you have in mind to show in Ghost in the Shell: SAC_2045?

 

Kamiyama:Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex was made during the early internet era, and the internet is a bit more mature now. People also relate to it differently than they used to. But I also felt like there’s justice in keeping society fair even as technology advances and our value systems diversify, and I wanted to take another turn at portraying heroes who do that in the new era. And separately, I resolved to make it a story where technology saves us, since there was so much art depicting the potential for science and technological progress to make us less happy in the future. Because Shirow once said, “Science has to be a source of hope in sci-fi.” And I resolved to stay true to that in 2045, too.

 

――The film covers current concepts and keywords like post-humans and sustainable AI. Did you want to keep it close to the real world that way, including things like using 2045 as the setting?

 

Kamiyama: Yes. Even though it’s anime, I’ve always tried not to make works that are just convenient, empty fantasies. So I aimed for a story where viewers would be able to take away hints toward hope for the real world upon watching the series. I like to think that my stance on artistic creation has shone through in all of my work so far.

 

――I think you have a lot of fans who would want a sequel. Will Motoko and the team be around to show people the way in the future, as society grows ever more chaotic?

 

Kamiyama: We might get to make a sequel, or we might not. People said they wanted us to make Ghost in the Shell into something that could go on forever when we were making 2045, too. Something like Sazae-san or Lupin the Third. But with the speed at which the world and internet are changing currently, I don’t think it would be possible to make a Ghost in the Shell series with the same approach forever. Looking back, nobody predicted the precise ways we’d use the internet now, back in the early 2000s, and people thought everyone would at least be equal in status on the internet. But now, there are controls applied to information, even on social media. And there’s a clear divide between the people who control the information and those who are just on the service. We’ve lost the fairness and equality of the early internet era. When I consider that point, it feels like it might not be possible to keep making a single series with character concepts that never change. But I do have an idea of a structure that would let me make more in the future. The premise and form are actually worked into the ending of 2045.

 

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KENJI KAMIYAMA

Born March 20, 1966. Native of Saitama Prefecture. Got involved in animation independently as a high school student. Hired at Studio Fuga in 1985. Worked on background projects for the anime films Akira and Kiki’s Delivery Service, among others. Took on the role of director for the first time for the 2002 film Mobile Police Patlabor Minimum. He is best known for the series Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex, Ultraman, and Eden of the East.